You just made me so happy. If you write a blog to slam her, or design a demeaning meme, or post an essay-style comment on her blog youre not only being hurtful, but also completely ineffective at the very thing you claim to be doing. He gave one hard and fast litmus test: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. No, Jesus didnt specifically say armed robbery is wrong, but it harms your neighbor. Your email address will not be published. In response to Ben, below, it aint necessarily so. Great food for thought. But this, I humbly submit as just my opinion. Im going to respond to just your first sentence. Jen already said how she came to her changed decision she isnt going to answer you one by one because 1. This is a core gospel issue. This story is similar in human history bully and stifle and corner disparate voices, rewrite the narrative to fit your position. Its a beautiful picture, private and evocative. JH: Jen Hatmaker, member of Austin New Church (ANC), occasional preacher, no official leadership position stated Sharing of various opinions leads to personal growth, if we allow it. These guys are preaching or teaching heresy under the guise of being loving. Your email address will not be published. Selena Gomez and Hailey Bieber drama: A complete timeline of their feud This story has been shared 20,804 times. Is a JH an elder? That was supposed to say. I know I will forever be grateful to God for the two years I had at that church and the people I met that changed my life for the better. It was also Jesus who affirmed what exactly a marriage covenant is when he said, from Genesis, that a man leaves his father and mother to cling to his wife and become one flesh. Slow down and show love to someone that may be hurting. People often say things are facts based only on their opinions and interpretations but saying theyre absolute eternal truths? I understand that you think it is. Theres a point to this but its not happening the right way. Man, the irony. Jesus did say those who are WITHOUT sin, cast the first stone. I believe Jesus did not say you may shame people if your sin is not worse than otherssin. I think that response is spot on Mike. Its a difficult place to beI feel like Im losing my home. He just wasnt talking about that. Specialties: Our dream is to have an increasingly positive impact on the South Austin Community. And it is wrong of this couple to teach this. Its often very ugly. In your pursuit of eternal life, have you sold all your possessions and given them to the poor and if not, how do you justify that? And theyre not always wrong. To say that this was some kind of clue to the fact that people are born certain ways regarding homosexuality is twisting this verse. Since I dont know, Id ask a few questions in return Some express it in healthy ways, some do not. thanks, Yes, and you should NEVER chase them with a whip. But I know that God is on His throne and showing us the true Kingdom at hand, and it doesnt look like what we thought it would. When any one says any sin is okay then they are wrong. The festival welcomes and encourages artists from any discipline to join us in a week-long celebration of student-led performance. shebearsbecausesheiscalled , 06/14/2019. They dont view her as a sister. Shes toast in their eyes. Do you not judge those who are inside? If you work on the Sabbath, how do you justify that? He also said marriage was between a man and a woman only. Burnt toast actually. I begged these people to stop and shared with them how it was affecting me and my staff. A CHURCH WHERE EVERYONE BELONGS. According to a source that told the U.S . Jesus says tons of things. Octocer 25: JH interviewed by Jonathan Merritt which affirms her belief that gay marriage can be holy. The Bible gives us ample examples of this. Cant we allow all of us to wrestle with our positions on all sorts of matters without feeling a need to correct? What comes to mind for me in countering your view is Matthew 18:6-9. I was super bummed out by most of the comments. It sounds familiar because it is. Is she a pastor? People forget about Jesus chasing people with a whip. It uses the term error for all other deviations. It certainly wasnt with venom, as has been seen in Hatmakers case. Christians normally reserve the word heresy for serious doctrinal error that strikes at core doctrines of the faith, doctrines considered foundational like Trinity etc. I mean, its like youre willfully ignoring what Jesus is saying about marriage and what Genesis is saying about marriage. TAKE INITIATIVE. It seems to me there is room to fairly critique both speaker and listener here. Or the only one you care about? Not to slam the person personally. We cant receive grace from something we dont actually believe is a sin. And as a point of note, the closest he ever came to talking about homosexuality, he explained that in heaven, there is no such thing as marriage and that all marriage contracts are nullified since we shall be as the angels which either means angels get it on with whoever they like or they have no sexual characteristicswhich means that if there is sexual desire in heaven, it would be homosexual as wed all be the same sex. Constricting.Simulating.Seekin Removing our measures; esp comparable measures to others She already said 2. Plain and simple. Oscar nominee Austin Butler and model girlfriend Kaia Gerber were "making out all night" at W Magazine's annual "Best Performances" party over the weekend, spies told Page Six . Im simply asking you to justify the parts of the Bible you either reinterpret or ignore altogether. There is nothing more frightening to a human being (and this time I say this from personal offline experience) than the sense that the community is turning on them. . While people are free to express themselves many ways sexually, to do so outside of the marriage bed is against the message of Jesus. Im hearing some noted preachers, and teachers of preaching, nervously proclaiming that the sermon is safe from the chatbot. You either believe or you dont and you either repent and work away from sin or you dont. 5/15/22 ANC 5-15-2022 Sunday Live Service ANC 5-15-2022 Sunday Live Service 5/8/22 . Brandon is a former pastor of Austin New Church (located in Austin, Texas, USA). And if you think Im exaggerating, recall John Pipers incendiary tweet Farewell, Rob Bell, written in response to Bells book Love Wins. I agree. BURN. My study of the scriptures has helped me come to the conclusion that drinking alcohol is not sin if in moderation. Isnt it interesting, the things that indicate when we should keep away from a sinful brother or sister. Jesus didnt die for the sins of the world so we could allow people to keep sinning. Now we all sin, its truee, and we should be inclusive. Lets all do our best to avoid generalities. However, the scriptures are clear that homosexual practice is sin. But we cant condone sin. (In the latter, its called the Church Discipline passage & is about kicking people out. The author thought he had the dream job: pastoring a megachurch. 100% with you, Mike Frost. Sadly, this is what happens when religious communities become obsessed with building walls to exclude others. After six years of growth, mature budget, people growing in Christ, we had three to four couples in our church create their pack, circled the wagons, and made sure that at the cost of unity in the body of Christ that they were going to exude their spiritual superiority at any cost. This is the right thing according to Matthew 18, a teaching emphasized in the intentional-community churches Ive been part of since reaching adulthood but not in the evangelical ones I grew up with. Jesus didnt talk about sexually abusing children. 2 Brandon and Jennifer Hatmaker got married in 1993 Credit: Instagram Coitus is the passage of both parties through blood, the very biology of sex attesting to the covenant of what a marriage is. I Corinthians 5:11-13 NKJV Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. Do you believe this, and if not how do you justify that? Share. This should surprise no one, least of all the writer. So there is no middle ground here. As a pastor I realize that people in churches are now being taught the meaning of the Bible mainly on-line, through sermons, blogs, tv shows, and books, probably more than personal dialogue on Sunday mornings or in small groups, or over coffee with me or other leaders, whose ministries are disciple-making. But yes, darn it, we really do need a theology of sexuality. Make sure love wins, even if it kills us. Was the author referencing Jen as a wounded wolf? Healthy religion gives confidence to embrace the stranger and insights that are available from those with a different experience of life. Its kind and helpful. After all, its one of the Ten Commandments. Post-Bulletin, Austin MN. What a obnoxious way to be. I thank God I am not a reformed sinner. Our dream is to have an increasingly positive impact on the South Austin Community. New Releases THE QUIET GIRL. And I dont know anyone who doesnt love a little Righteous Anger. I will simply READ MY BIBLE. The few times PAUL talks about homosexuality, FYI, he either uses the terms that literally mean pedophilia OR they get lumped in with every other sexual act outside of marriage, including STRAIGHT SEX. ChatGPT has got some preachers spooked. It is neither your job nor your ability to call out someone elses sin. Reasoning is a heretical concept to them. But, please tell me, where did Jesus call it a sin ? Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Austin Miniatures Western Barn Wild West Cowboys Conte Compatible Marx TSSD at the best online prices at eBay! Im not arrogant-Im just trying to be obedient. Yes, thank you. Because this teacher is teaching self-justification for sin rather than justification through repentance and the cross. And if so, do you ask them how they justify it? Cracking a loud whip has always been the most effective means of controlling the movement of large groups of animals. Im not suggesting religious communities shouldnt have core beliefs and clear tenets of faith. To love your neighbor as yourself is not condoning sin or teaching sin is okay. However I didnt make the connection with Jen. Not worth attempting to reason with. Pretty much the same thing in Matthew. Saying sin is wrong is not hate speech. Restore Groups (Missional/Incarnational Communities) are clusters of friends throughout the city in which community, communion, and mission unfold as a way of life . I am sure she is a nice lady but you can not say something that is not biblical and then reiterate it and then think that people who are biblical in what what they believe will stand with you. Sad. I dont know what you mean about the not having friends part-no one says that. How did a blog post calling into question the way that conservative Christians attack each other descend into comments by Christians (Im assuming) attacking each other about SSM? But this type of story appears just once in the Bible. Prior to October of 2016 traditional Christian marriage was the Hatmakers official position. Anyone who writes a damning or imperious or condescending comment on their blog is only showing they have no such concern for the person Approach them directly; raise your concerns respectfully; where appropriate and reasonable, invite a third party into the discussion. I cant imagine how this approach would lead a person down the wrong path. That sparked the beginning of a journey of discovery of what it means for the Church of Jesus Christ to be missional. I do think Christians have adopted some culturally normative communication patterns; engaging in reflexive critique via social media and being far too easily offended, among them. . I am ok if any of you disagree with me. This isnt great, Mike, and soooo important. If you dont, how do you justify that? It does not hurt me or my neighbor, and I dont believe that love is a sin against God. The 04 Center is a community space in the truest sense of the word. Its not what you say but when and how you communicate it. Im sorry, but a gay couple can easily be married and so long as they dont divorce (for any reason save infidelity), theyre obeying GOD. If your deal is to call anyone with differing theological opinions a heretic Im not guessing its something I can change, but as a close friend of Jens I find a lot of this commentary nothing like the Jesus I love and serve alongside Jen. I find many here lining up in a militaristic way about their faith. My understanding has always been that public sins are rebuked publicly, and private sins can be handled in the way you describe. It is one of my favorite stories. Thats clear. Are you who create these arguments so entrenched in your open orthodoxy unable to see the futility of a man-made salvation where there isnt such a thing as sin, and therefore no need for a Savior from sin? In the meantime, lets pray for our sister currently in the crosshairs of unhealthy religion, knowing that at any time it could be you or me who draws the ire of her detractors. I also smoke pipes and cigars occasionally, I feel the same way with this as well. The couple founded the Austin, Texas, based church along with Legacy Collective, a community foundation aiming to find sustainable housing, prevent child trafficking and provide health care. The law is very important to them as a way to honor God, but their rabbis have debated points of the law for centuries, and they dont live in a world where the debater who turns out to be wrong has thereby denied the whole of his faith, like you seem to think Christians do. But according to Bibles self-described marriage covenant, they are not marriage. We cant say its ok because peoples feelings might be hurt. But dont you see that disagreement doesnt immediately mean hate? Does this however mean that people who are homosexual are not welcome to attend church? Trust me, being a friend to Jesus is worth any sacrifice. Our campus is more than just a building where we gather on Sundays. Shes a heretic! HeckJESUS said it. Thats the theological belief that God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. By saying homosexual practice is not sin, it is a form of self-justification rather than Jesus-justification. Great question KB. They are encouraging. There wasnt any theological issues, no heresy. We have to die to our sin, our own desires and live for Christ. Thats a relief! We all know deep down whats right and whats wrong. Lots of talk of RELIGION-not FAITH Where did Jesus say anything about polluting the environment, or armed robbery? However, I am 100% sure its not sin, so I feel like I am doing nothing wrong and am not presenting an affront to the gospel. But those who are outside God judges. Because if it is sin, the only justification we are allowed as believers to practice is repentance and forgiveness through the cross and grace of Jesus. And Im not sure what youre getting at in regard to child abuse. Even if you hate me for it. Not as burnt toast. Thank you for being my intellectual superior and calling me out on that. "Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but. But you miss the third part of Jesus statement regarding how to deal with the one who sins against you. Yes, an email, phone call, face-to-face communication is the first step, and inviting third parties (two or three witnesses) is the second step. I am so tried WITH Vicky of the implication that those that support same-sex marriage are not serious about the Word of God. Youre right, Spencer, in my opinion. How do we go about that privately if the person does not respond to you? Is she officially on staff at ANC in any paid or unpaid position? hhhmmmthat kind of thinking doesnt stand up too good. We are a broadly evangelical association of churches, united by a set of core doctrinal statements, I started out in Christian ministry in the 1980s. conceived & written by Patrick Hillcinematography & editing by Dave and Sarah Kemper of Cloud Craft Studiosproduced by ANC Creativesfeaturing Patrick Hill, S A journey through ANC's first in-house art gallery, "Anticipating What Already Is." Dont misunderstand me. 7:30 pm Primary Purpose - IN-PERSON. I know a guy with a Phd from a very conservative seminary who loves Jesus with all his heart, but he doesnt believe the earth was created in six days. It should NOT be saying sin is A-OK. Yet, the Bible is clear that it was. I would like corresponding supportive evidence before Ill consider something as fact. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. My mind was changed BECAUSE of my seriousness of the Word, not in spite of it. I couldnt take it any longer and chose to resign. THE definition of Christian marriage is in the Bible, beginning in Genesis. But that also shouldnt stop us from loving one another. Yet, I find myself sobbing in my back yard as I listen, hoping no one hears . When a practicing homosexual hears that his sin is not actually a sin, it keeps that practicing homosexual from repentance, forgiveness, and freedom found in the grace of Yeshua. I think we should go one layer deeper, where is the accountability of the Jens and the Robs? To me this is just one more instance of tolerance being a one way street. They need to ask forgiveness and repent like all sinners need too do. Sorry but Jesus said nothing about a man and a woman only, as a matter of you require a man and a woman to make a marriage, no gays allowed they were ASKING him about DIVORCE, and how a man could give a woman a letter and divorce her. Please dont send the attack dogs to those with whom you disagree, just as you request for the attack dogs not to be sent your way. Jen Hatmaker, is NOT a victim, maybe she is a victim of poor theology and hermeneutics. It never says anything different then what he just said it does. That includes naming the ones doing the teaching. Furthermore, if your kids didnt believe that, would you be deeply disturbed or kick them out of the house? Another form of self-justification is that my sin is really not sin and therefore I do not need to confess and repent of my sin and take it to the cross. Jesus said he didnt condemn Mary the prostitute, but she was to go & sin no more . I dont think anyone should be throwing their children out of their home-or berating them to the point of suicide. We cant offer the grace of Christ with a lie attached. Frankly, I cant believe we even are having a conversation about this. Maybe he chased them with a whip in love, perhaps? Yes! Jen follows hard after Jesus and she will be okay, no matter what lables are given and what articles are written. Just like many other sins, of course. And trust that if we surrender to his ways and obeys him he will show us the best life, full of the great things like peace and joy and fellowship with the creator of the universe. If Jen Hatmaker was silent on the issue and started loving on homosexuals, nobody would say anything. 2:24. Homosexuality isnt the only sin there are other sins but since this is the topic here being discussed-Well church is for everyone-its for the sick not the well. CARE FOR ALL PEOPLE. 20,804 Hoda Kotb's lengthy 'Today' show absence finally explained Seems so simple but we fail so often. This is not about Trump. January 14, 2008 05:00 AM. Or at least that is true for many. Praise God David that He never left your side and He indeed had a better place for you. 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